Comments for A journey into learning http://tamasonline.com Learning and teaching English - learning and teaching to learn Mon, 30 Jan 2012 09:55:55 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 Comment on On slaps in the face and banging heads against the wall by tamaslorincz http://tamasonline.com/index.php/2012/01/25/1/comment-page-1/#comment-338 tamaslorincz Mon, 30 Jan 2012 09:55:55 +0000 http://tamasonline.com/?p=805#comment-338 How exciting, and strange this is. I am so grateful for this comment. Thanks for the clarification. I do have a tendency to become defensive and expect the worst. I even remember when I first heard the Dead Poets Society anecdote. I think not being in the classroom always makes me a bit jumpy, that's the core of the "emotional turmoil". Every time I leave the classroom is a bit of a failure for me and I always find it very difficutl to come to turns with it, and I did feel a bit of guilt when I left last year - even though that's what we had agreed on with the school management when I accepted to substitute a teacher who had announced leaving a couple of days before school started. I was indeed very happy that I could leave knowing that one of the best teachers in the country would take over my groups. This I am still absolutely convinced of and there is not the slightest doubt in me that the students really welcome the new situation and they benefit from it. I learnt a lot from this story and I think this blog post and the conversation that followed turned it into an even more memorable learning experience - thanks for that as well as all the other things I have learnt from you :-) How exciting, and strange this is. I am so grateful for this comment. Thanks for the clarification. I do have a tendency to become defensive and expect the worst. I even remember when I first heard the Dead Poets Society anecdote. I think not being in the classroom always makes me a bit jumpy, that’s the core of the “emotional turmoil”. Every time I leave the classroom is a bit of a failure for me and I always find it very difficutl to come to turns with it, and I did feel a bit of guilt when I left last year – even though that’s what we had agreed on with the school management when I accepted to substitute a teacher who had announced leaving a couple of days before school started.
I was indeed very happy that I could leave knowing that one of the best teachers in the country would take over my groups. This I am still absolutely convinced of and there is not the slightest doubt in me that the students really welcome the new situation and they benefit from it.
I learnt a lot from this story and I think this blog post and the conversation that followed turned it into an even more memorable learning experience – thanks for that as well as all the other things I have learnt from you :-)

]]> Comment on On slaps in the face and banging heads against the wall by TB http://tamasonline.com/index.php/2012/01/25/1/comment-page-1/#comment-337 TB Sun, 29 Jan 2012 17:56:57 +0000 http://tamasonline.com/?p=805#comment-337 Tamas (and dear all), Being the 'he' in your post, I felt maybe it's good that you went public with this and was interesting to read what you are going through. As I have already said it in a private message, it was not at all my intention to cause such an emtional turmoil and there are a few things that might need some further clarification. So, here goes: 1) As for the post I've written on banging our heads against the walls: it was simply not about you! As I said in the post, it was about a novice teacher, who (on a cold, foggy NOvember Monday morning) played Dead Poets' Society w/ a group of 16-year-olds. They did stand on the desks, but didn't really get why. I used the metaphor from your post about banging heads against walls and reflected on it. What I intended to say was this: If we keep on banging our heads against brick walls, we ought to suffer - the walls will stand. This is exactly what I fear - young, creative, idealists with the motivation to do soething good wobbling around in schools concussed - before quitting teaching altogether. What I suggested in that essay was that we use our heads and provide some kind of an alternative for students where their different talents might flourish. That was that. All the rest you read into this is you - not the post or what was intended by it. This is not to say that you have no right to feel hurt, attacked and gutted, of course, just making it clear what that essay said and what was meant. 2) As for concepts and values. I do believe that anyone teaching needs a set of values a method to oparationalise these values. Teaching shouldn't involve putting on a mask - no one ever said that - and by teaching vocabbulary and (god forbid grammar!) I don't think that one compromises their personal integrity. What I meant in that private private Facebook message you refer to in your post is the following: you had the set of values (which were dramatically opposed to what students had been used to) but not the means and methods to successfully put these into practice. Students (I feel) loved you dearly and thought of you more as a friend than a teacher, but after a while grew impatient as they had no idea where the year was taking them or what they might get out of it. To be contimued :) Tamas (and dear all),
Being the ‘he’ in your post, I felt maybe it’s good that you went public with this and was interesting to read what you are going through.
As I have already said it in a private message, it was not at all my intention to cause such an emtional turmoil and there are a few things that might need some further clarification.
So, here goes:
1) As for the post I’ve written on banging our heads against the walls: it was simply not about you! As I said in the post, it was about a novice teacher, who (on a cold, foggy NOvember Monday morning) played Dead Poets’ Society w/ a group of 16-year-olds. They did stand on the desks, but didn’t really get why.
I used the metaphor from your post about banging heads against walls and reflected on it. What I intended to say was this: If we keep on banging our heads against brick walls, we ought to suffer – the walls will stand. This is exactly what I fear – young, creative, idealists with the motivation to do soething good wobbling around in schools concussed – before quitting teaching altogether.
What I suggested in that essay was that we use our heads and provide some kind of an alternative for students where their different talents might flourish. That was that. All the rest you read into this is you – not the post or what was intended by it. This is not to say that you have no right to feel hurt, attacked and gutted, of course, just making it clear what that essay said and what was meant.
2) As for concepts and values. I do believe that anyone teaching needs a set of values a method to oparationalise these values. Teaching shouldn’t involve putting on a mask – no one ever said that – and by teaching vocabbulary and (god forbid grammar!) I don’t think that one compromises their personal integrity. What I meant in that private private Facebook message you refer to in your post is the following: you had the set of values (which were dramatically opposed to what students had been used to) but not the means and methods to successfully put these into practice. Students (I feel) loved you dearly and thought of you more as a friend than a teacher, but after a while grew impatient as they had no idea where the year was taking them or what they might get out of it.
To be contimued :)

]]> Comment on On slaps in the face and banging heads against the wall by tamaslorincz http://tamasonline.com/index.php/2012/01/25/1/comment-page-1/#comment-336 tamaslorincz Fri, 27 Jan 2012 07:53:31 +0000 http://tamasonline.com/?p=805#comment-336 Cheers Brad, funny think thing is. I systematically challenge children's concept of what a teacher should be like, and what learning is. It does bother me if I do service or disservice to them but I always come to the conclusion that the wider range of attitudes, beliefs and personalities they encounter, the more prepared they will be to deal with those situations and personalities later on in life. Thanks for the comment, much appreciated. Cheers Brad, funny think thing is. I systematically challenge children’s concept of what a teacher should be like, and what learning is. It does bother me if I do service or disservice to them but I always come to the conclusion that the wider range of attitudes, beliefs and personalities they encounter, the more prepared they will be to deal with those situations and personalities later on in life. Thanks for the comment, much appreciated.

]]> Comment on On slaps in the face and banging heads against the wall by tamaslorincz http://tamasonline.com/index.php/2012/01/25/1/comment-page-1/#comment-335 tamaslorincz Fri, 27 Jan 2012 06:44:21 +0000 http://tamasonline.com/?p=805#comment-335 Thanks Eva. It is an interesting situation and now that I finally got it out I feel I have learnt from it a lot. It will be a good reminder for future crises. Thanks for dropping by. Thanks Eva. It is an interesting situation and now that I finally got it out I feel I have learnt from it a lot. It will be a good reminder for future crises. Thanks for dropping by.

]]> Comment on On slaps in the face and banging heads against the wall by Eva Büyüksimkesyan http://tamasonline.com/index.php/2012/01/25/1/comment-page-1/#comment-334 Eva Büyüksimkesyan Thu, 26 Jan 2012 19:58:42 +0000 http://tamasonline.com/?p=805#comment-334 Great post, Tamas. As Brad said very open and honest. I read and reread and want to reread again. Best, Eva Great post, Tamas.
As Brad said very open and honest. I read and reread and want to reread again.
Best,
Eva

]]> Comment on On slaps in the face and banging heads against the wall by Brad Patterson http://tamasonline.com/index.php/2012/01/25/1/comment-page-1/#comment-333 Brad Patterson Thu, 26 Jan 2012 08:55:35 +0000 http://tamasonline.com/?p=805#comment-333 Very honest and open, Tamas. Live and let learn. It feels like you are and I think it's always best to do what our heart says. It seems you have been. Best, Brad Very honest and open, Tamas. Live and let learn. It feels like you are and I think it’s always best to do what our heart says. It seems you have been. Best, Brad

]]> Comment on On slaps in the face and banging heads against the wall by tamaslorincz http://tamasonline.com/index.php/2012/01/25/1/comment-page-1/#comment-332 tamaslorincz Thu, 26 Jan 2012 08:33:35 +0000 http://tamasonline.com/?p=805#comment-332 Thanks, Kati. Great song, indeed. I would just like to think that there are so few certainties when it comes to teaching and learning - we all do it differently and we never know what the impact on our students is going to be that claiming to know what is needed and presenting one's own experience and convictions as the one and only truth is not really convincing. I could try to be you or anyone I admire as a person or teacher but it would be a certain disaster. I think my heart is in the right place and that;'s what matters when it comes to teaching and learning because this is the motivation that propels you on to be better as a teacher. This is all I believe in, my experience is only one of the millions of teacher experiences, I do enjoy thinking it over, looking at it from many different angles. Being able to do things differently is what makes this profession so exciting. I have great appreciation and humble respect for many-many people in the profession, and although I might not agree with many of them, I would never doubt their wisdom and right to do things the way they do, as long as it does not harm their students. And with all the failures and missed opportunities, I don't believe that I had damaged my students. Admittedly, they could have learnt more English but they will learn it anyway. They have the right attitude and the motivation to use and learn the language as often as possible. Ah well, if you spent your life thinking about the damage you might have caused to your students, you would probably not stay in the profession too long. There is no way of knowing it, all you have to trust is your own convictions and the belief that you are doing what you believe in and with the best of intentions. This is all I can do, sometimes it works, sometimes I fail, but never do I fail or succeed totally or absolutely. I would definitely do everything differently the second time over, even if t was a success. I do not believe in recipes, I believe in experiences and learning from each other not by adopting but by adapting their experience and opinion. Sorry about the long meandering reply.... Thanks for stopping by. Thanks, Kati. Great song, indeed. I would just like to think that there are so few certainties when it comes to teaching and learning – we all do it differently and we never know what the impact on our students is going to be that claiming to know what is needed and presenting one’s own experience and convictions as the one and only truth is not really convincing. I could try to be you or anyone I admire as a person or teacher but it would be a certain disaster. I think my heart is in the right place and that;’s what matters when it comes to teaching and learning because this is the motivation that propels you on to be better as a teacher. This is all I believe in, my experience is only one of the millions of teacher experiences, I do enjoy thinking it over, looking at it from many different angles. Being able to do things differently is what makes this profession so exciting. I have great appreciation and humble respect for many-many people in the profession, and although I might not agree with many of them, I would never doubt their wisdom and right to do things the way they do, as long as it does not harm their students. And with all the failures and missed opportunities, I don’t believe that I had damaged my students. Admittedly, they could have learnt more English but they will learn it anyway. They have the right attitude and the motivation to use and learn the language as often as possible. Ah well, if you spent your life thinking about the damage you might have caused to your students, you would probably not stay in the profession too long. There is no way of knowing it, all you have to trust is your own convictions and the belief that you are doing what you believe in and with the best of intentions. This is all I can do, sometimes it works, sometimes I fail, but never do I fail or succeed totally or absolutely. I would definitely do everything differently the second time over, even if t was a success. I do not believe in recipes, I believe in experiences and learning from each other not by adopting but by adapting their experience and opinion. Sorry about the long meandering reply…. Thanks for stopping by.

]]> Comment on On slaps in the face and banging heads against the wall by tamaslorincz http://tamasonline.com/index.php/2012/01/25/1/comment-page-1/#comment-331 tamaslorincz Thu, 26 Jan 2012 08:12:49 +0000 http://tamasonline.com/?p=805#comment-331 Cheers Alan. I do use this blog a little bit as my own agony column, it is not even the post that I am so intrigued by but the process of reaching a kind of closure. Earlier I would write stuff off the cuff now I sort of try to mull things over. This results in long posts like this one. I do believe that "f*ck-ups" when analysed and understood properly are important. I think that these experiences help students coping with real-life situations, it gives them the experience and wisdom they need to make their own (probably better) decisions. Cheers Alan. I do use this blog a little bit as my own agony column, it is not even the post that I am so intrigued by but the process of reaching a kind of closure. Earlier I would write stuff off the cuff now I sort of try to mull things over. This results in long posts like this one. I do believe that “f*ck-ups” when analysed and understood properly are important. I think that these experiences help students coping with real-life situations, it gives them the experience and wisdom they need to make their own (probably better) decisions.

]]> Comment on On slaps in the face and banging heads against the wall by Alan Tait (@alanmtait) http://tamasonline.com/index.php/2012/01/25/1/comment-page-1/#comment-330 Alan Tait (@alanmtait) Thu, 26 Jan 2012 01:19:20 +0000 http://tamasonline.com/?p=805#comment-330 A great post, Tamas, really. I can only echo what's been said above. The only truly rubbish teachers are the ones who are just struggling along until the final bell rings each day. And you're not one of them! Kudos for the courage to go public with your worries and strife. Without intending any personal criticism of your colleague, remember what A says about B reveals more about HIMSELF than B. And everybody's allowed to f*ck up sometimes ;) A great post, Tamas, really.

I can only echo what’s been said above. The only truly rubbish teachers are the ones who are just struggling along until the final bell rings each day. And you’re not one of them!

Kudos for the courage to go public with your worries and strife. Without intending any personal criticism of your colleague, remember what A says about B reveals more about HIMSELF than B.

And everybody’s allowed to f*ck up sometimes ;)

]]> Comment on On slaps in the face and banging heads against the wall by Kati http://tamasonline.com/index.php/2012/01/25/1/comment-page-1/#comment-329 Kati Wed, 25 Jan 2012 21:27:51 +0000 http://tamasonline.com/?p=805#comment-329 Apologies for not translating this. Another song by the band cited above: A vadász és a nyuszik Én adom a nyuszikat, te adod a vadászt Én kitalálok valamit és talán te is találsz Ebben olyat amitôl, izgalmas a játék Lônél rám, de a helyedben én soha nem találnék Hogy annak ne legyen vége, ami ilyen jól megy Én csak futok elôtted, nekem úgyis lôttek De belôled még akármi is lehet S csak annyit mondj rá, ha kérdik mi lett veled Lôjél és ne dumálj, haggyá' má Az én szívem tyúkszar, ünnep van ha érzek A lányok ettôl sírnak, majd holnap beszélek A vadászat alatt még majd errôl veled S ha kérdeznéd, hogy -Mi van veled? - Hát velem most minden lehet. 2. S ha kérdeznéd, hogy mi van veled - Hát veled most minden lehet. Nézd a mezôt ott szaladok (1) Nyuszi vagyok tojást rakok (2) A sok finom kék szalagot Ha otthon az asztalra dobsz Ha véres is, a hajamba hagyhatnád I am also glad you shared this Tamás. I think we all know what to think about you both as an education professional and also as a private individual, despite what other 'education experts' taking the moral high ground say. Apologies for not translating this. Another song by the band cited above:

A vadász és a nyuszik

Én adom a nyuszikat, te adod a vadászt
Én kitalálok valamit és talán te is találsz
Ebben olyat amitôl, izgalmas a játék
Lônél rám, de a helyedben én soha nem találnék

Hogy annak ne legyen vége, ami ilyen jól megy
Én csak futok elôtted, nekem úgyis lôttek
De belôled még akármi is lehet
S csak annyit mondj rá, ha kérdik mi lett veled
Lôjél és ne dumálj, haggyá’ má

Az én szívem tyúkszar, ünnep van ha érzek
A lányok ettôl sírnak, majd holnap beszélek
A vadászat alatt még majd errôl veled
S ha kérdeznéd, hogy -Mi van veled?
- Hát velem most minden lehet.
2. S ha kérdeznéd, hogy mi van veled
- Hát veled most minden lehet.

Nézd a mezôt ott szaladok (1)
Nyuszi vagyok tojást rakok (2)
A sok finom kék szalagot
Ha otthon az asztalra dobsz
Ha véres is, a hajamba hagyhatnád

I am also glad you shared this Tamás. I think we all know what to think about you both as an education professional and also as a private individual, despite what other ‘education experts’ taking the moral high ground say.

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